Tea with Steve Laws

Steve Laws was one of the first people to report on the growing tide of illegal immigration along the south coast. He also stood for UKIP in the recent Southend West by-election, campaigning ‘to offer the normal people a voice.’

We caught up with him over tea, and asked about the current situation at Dover, and whether he believes an end to illegal immigration is on the horizon. 

Editor: What made you start investigating the illegal border crossings?

Steve Laws: Well basically, at first it was just to prove to my friend that it was happening, because he didn’t believe that they are coming in, they’re getting loaded onto coaches, and they get taken to hotels. So, just to prove a point I went down there. I filmed it. I put it out on Twitter, and I sent it to my friend to show that it is happening. I was on my lunch break at work, and when I was there, when I put the footage out on Twitter, I realised that people don’t actually realise this is happening. I just showed a bit more, and then before I knew it, I was a couple of years down the line, and I’m still doing it.

Editor: I think you were the first person I noticed, and then I know, if I’ve got this right, Nigel Farage came on-board a while after, but it was you who kind of kicked it all off. Is that correct?

Steve Laws: There’s a few others that film it as well. But yeah, I think I was the first one to put it up on Twitter.

Editor: I don’t know it you’ve been down recently, but can you tell us, what’s the current situation at Dover?

Steve Laws: The current situation is, they’ve recently taken down the old tents and porter cabins that they were using, because the new multi-million pound facilities are being built. And they’re now using that, as well as using Manston Airport, which isn’t too far away, as an overflow site. And then obviously, down at Dungeness they’re still arriving, with the help of the RNLI, and they’re building an overflow centre at Lydd Airport as well in case it gets too busy down there. So, at the moment they’ve got all the preparations in place for the year; this year we’ve had just over 1,350 I think it is (off the top of my head), so I think they’ve got the preparations in place. There’s a lot more staff down there now.

They did try serving an injunction on myself, and a few others. A few others signed something like a non-disclosure form, agreeing not to go down there, whereas I fought it in court, and then the judge refused to serve an injunction, because obviously I’d done nothing wrong.   

Editor: It’s good to hear that, I knew you’d had some legal problems, but I wasn’t sure where you’d got with it so well done with that. I think you have to fight it, you can’t be silenced.

Steve Laws: Absolutely, all I’m doing is filming boats. There’s nothing criminal at all. They’re painting me as some sort of ‘far-right’ whatever.

Editor: Yes, we’ll come on to that, because I saw some of that. I just wanted to check briefly on the numbers Steve. Have I got this right, in 2020 8,500 thousand came over. Last year, it was more than treble that, 28,500, and the official estimates for this year are for 65,000, that’s the official estimates – is that right?

Steve Laws: Yes, that’s pretty much spot on. It started in 2018, it was just like 200 who came over by boat, give or take. And in 2019, it was 1,800. And then, like you said in 2020 it was 8,500, give or take; 28,500 in 2021, and yeah the Home Office prediction for this year is 65,000, but going by what I’ve seen it’s probably more likely to be 70-80,000. The foundations are all in place. The accommodations are getting freed up more and more every day, so it seems like that will be the figure.

Editor: Yes, I’m sure the official estimates will err on the lower side, so as not to worry the public unduly.

Steve Laws: Absolutely.

Editor: Ok, question for you Steve: if you were Home Secretary, what would you be doing right now? What do you think the right move is?

Steve Laws: Personally, if I were Home Secretary, I think the first thing I’d be doing is removing the incentives: for instance, if you come over you can’t get money, you’re not given a phone, you’re not getting put into a hotel. You get taken straight into accommodation, and then you’d be deported back to France the same day, that’s what I would do.

But to do that, you need bilateral agreements with France etc. And the way to do that, is you need to play a tough hand with France. For instance, if France are not going to take any of these people back, even though they’re leaving their country, then we’re going to have to start making arrangements where we’re saying well ok then, we’re not going to trade with you. I know it’s cutting your nose to spite your face, but in a case like this you need to be tough, and you need to take a tough stance.

I would also push back in the Channel if it’s possible, but at the moment the thing is that the dinghies the traffickers and the illegal immigrants are using to come across are designed to collapse mid-Channel.

Editor: Yes. The idea that we’ve been tough in any way is ridiculous. Priti Patel paid £54M I think last year. It’s obviously not in the French interest to do anything but chaperone them in, because the French don’t want them.

Steve Laws: No, of course they don’t. They don’t want them in northern France, and the thing is, giving France money is absolutely pointless, unless they’re going to let us send our own soldiers or Border Force officers on to the beaches to stop it. We’ve seen footage of the French police physically standing there and letting them go, and not doing anything.

Now there’s news coming out that we’re going to pay even more money for CCTV, which in my opinion is absolutely pointless, because all it’s doing is giving the Border Force something to look at from the other side of the Channel. But they’re not going to stop it. Once they get mid-Channel, they’re still going to go out and pick them up. So, ultimately there needs to be agreements with other nations to return these people, and you have to be tough and say ‘Ok, if you’re not going to accept them, then we’re not going to issue any visas for people visiting here, etc etc.

And then eventually, something will give and countries will start taking these people back. We’ve got to be a lot tougher, and at the moment everyone’s too scared to even mention immigration, because it’s such a taboo subject. But it’s actually the biggest problem in UK at the moment.

Editor: There were reports a few weeks back, that the Navy was going to be deployed in the Channel, but I understand there are certain legal implications which make that difficult. Do you expect that to happen any time soon?

Steve Laws: If it was under a different government, under different circumstances, I would be fully on-board with the Navy getting involved. But the reality is, if they do get involved they’re just going to bring over even more people, because there’s nothing in place to say the Navy can push them back and stop them coming. So, the problem will just escalate under the Navy because they’ve got bigger boats, they’re more efficient, and they’re better at getting the job done.

Editor: Bigger taxis.

Steve Laws: Yeah, basically bigger taxis, but I can’t see the Navy ever going down there and using it; it’s not a very British thing to do. So, it’s just soundbites I think.

Editor: It is what Australia successfully did though.

Steve Laws: Yeah, they successfully stopped all boats coming. And now, I think they have the odd one or two arriving every year, and they just push them back.

Editor: Yes, as you said in terms of France, I think a show of strength is invariably the right response.

Steve Laws: Yes, because at the moment France are holding us (excuse my language), by the bollocks, and they’re just every time we say something they just squeeze and squeeze, ‘No, no it’s not happening.’ And we just have to agree with it, because our government are too weak to go against them, because they’re our closest neighbour. But, without being tough on France, the problem won’t stop.

Editor: Steve, I’d like to move on to politics briefly if you don’t mind. You stood for UKIP in the recent Southend West by-election. Were you disappointed by the result – I understand the turnout was extremely low, around 24% if I remember rightly. How did you feel about that?

Steve Laws: Well, it was my first time standing, so I wasn’t expecting anything too drastic. And I knew that the seat was going to go back to the Conservatives, due to the circumstances of how the by-election came about. I was expecting a few more votes if I’m honest, I was expecting to at least retain my deposit, so I was a little bit disappointed on that score, and coming second to the Psychedelic Movement. It is was it is, I’m afraid.

Editor: What’s next for you then, in terms of UKIP? Are you intending to stand for them again?

Steve Laws: I’m going to take a step back at the moment, and focus on the illegal immigration since it’s all going to get a bit out of control at the moment. But when the next General Election comes round, I will be considering re-standing, but I haven’t 100% made my mind up yet. If I’m honest with you, I didn’t realise how much work has to go into it, to standing in a by-election. I was perhaps a bit naïve when I went into it, not realising that there’s actually a lot of work involved, and it takes an awful lot of time.

Editor: And it’s also a very dirty game. I saw the Hope not Hate hit piece on you, I think it’s fair to say, trying to smear you – I love the idea that anyone who’s concerned about thousands of people coming across the Channel about whom we know little; from cultures and countries alien to us, is somehow ‘far-right’? How do you feel about people labelling you ‘far-right’?

Steve Laws: If I’m honest with you, it doesn’t bother me. I can’t change what someone’s political perception is of me. And it’s all relative. So, if you’re extremely far-left, anyone to the right of you is going to be seen as far-right. I know plenty of people with left-wing ideologies, that are completely opposed to illegal immigration, but support regular immigration.

Hope not Hate always blur the whole lot into one, and never ever attempt an honest conversation about it. It’s always soundbites, call them far-right, shut them down. Never debate the issue, and ask where they’re coming from. They’ve never done that once.

Editor: It’s funny that only seems to work on one side. It’s very rare to hear anyone called ‘far-left’, and it doesn’t automatically shut them down.

Steve Laws: Yes, I think that’s partly because of the fact that centre and right-wing people don’t often play that game. They don’t really attack people for their political views, they’re more about you can say what you want, your actions are how you’re held to account.

Editor: That’s great Steve. What’s the best way for readers to hear more about you – I know you’ve got your website?

Steve Laws: Yes. Via my website, or on Twitter, that’s the best way to get hold of me.

Editor: Thank you for raising concerns about this. Do you consider you’ll be doing this until the situation is resolved?

Steve Laws: At first I thought I’d just do it to highlight it. But then, when I realised the situation was spiralling out of control, and even though the media are now reporting on it, they’re still not reporting on it honestly; they’re still diluting the story, or twisting the narrative slightly. So until people know exactly what’s going on, and there’s some sort of sign that the government are going to stop it, I’m going to have to keep exposing it. The only way to get anywhere, is to keep the pressure up unfortunately.

You can find out more about Steve Laws’ regular reports from Dover via his website: https://stevelawsreport.co.uk/, or by following him on Twitter: https://twitter.com/Steve_Laws_